Capital Punishment Is Barbaric

I am not a fan of capital punishment.  In fact, I find it abhorrent.

I know I am a minority in this country (as I am on many social issues these days).

But I am in the "turn the other cheek" camp instead of the "eye for an eye" camp.

I certainly find murder and terrorism and other forms of crime that are punishable by death as abhorrent as capital punishment.  But I don't feel the need to continue to cycle of death beyond the initial crime.

So why am I saying this now?

Because the state of California is planning to execute a once awful criminal named Stan Williams next week.

Arnold Schwarzenegger will make the final decision this Thursday on Stan's life.  I hope and pray that he doesn't feel the need to live up to his Terminator nickname.

If Nixon could go to China, maybe Arnold can grant a stay of execution.

If you want to weigh in with Arnold, here is a page that tells you how to call him, email him, or petition him.

Comments

[DeusExLibris]

I completely agree with you on captial punishment Fred. As Americans, we feel that it is our duty to export our moral correctness to the rest of the world, and yet we are in the minority among civilized nations in this regard. It is beyond ironic (dare I say hypocritical) that greater than 90% of Americans consider themselves to be religious when one of the most fundemental tenets of all the worlds major religions is "Do not kill".

One minor note of correction regarding Stan "Tookie" Williams - Schwarznegger is being asked to consider granting clemency for Williams, not a stay of execution.

[Raj Bala]

George Ryan, former governor of Illinois, is my hero.

Must see documentary on George Ryan and the failure of the our system:

http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=60035195&trkid=147042

[Dana VanDen Heuvel]

Fred,

I think you'll find a lot of supporters in this camp. It's odd that in both Canada and Mexico, it's been abolished. We're the one in middle with ass backward policies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Around_the_present_world)

[Rockwell]

Here's some more information on Tookie Williams:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003984.htm

"Williams was convicted of murdering four innocent bystanders with a sawed-off shotgun in 1979. There was nothing peaceful or compassionate about the way [Albert Owens], Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang and Yee Chen Lin died. Owen[s] was a white teen-age clerk at a 7-11 convenience store, shot twice in the back of the head -- execution-style -- as he lay unarmed on the floor during a hold-up. A witness testified that Williams mocked the gurgling sounds Owen[s] made as he lay dying. "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him," the witness quoted Williams."

"Williams has yet to apologize to the victims' families. When the trial ended, Martin told me, Williams muttered to the prosecution team, "I'll get every one of you m-----f-----s.""

[Andre Charland]

Thanks for this post Fred. Refreshing to see, especially from a Canadian entrepreneur's point of view.

[Peter]

This is a tough one. Anyone remember Charles Ng? He kidnapped over 20 people back in the 1990s. He'd take them home and lock them up in a dungeon he had built. Then he would torture them for days and video tape it all for his viewing pleasure. Finally, he'd kill them.

http://www.allserialkillers.com/charles_ng.htm

I won't lose any sleep when they put this **** to sleep, or others like him.

[Tony Alva]

Sorry to spoil the party, but I have no issue with capital punishment as long as DNA evidence can clearly prove guilt. I loose no sleep for people like that waste of a human who kidnapped those two young kids, raped and killed the brother, and while on the lam got caught in that bodega by a watchful attendant who recognized the victim. Of course, this was after he repeatedly raped the little girl during his murderous odessey.

Sorry, but I don't want a single tax dollar spent letting him get fat and die in jail at a ripe old age. Give him the needle and be done with it. They don't deserve the life they have after doing something like that. If it was my little girl I'd probably do him myself.

I think it's awefully high and mighty to assume you or anyone else wouldn't feel the same if it was your kids. To me it's simply human nature and nothing to be ashamed of.

Remember the final scene in "Seven"? Hell yeah I would have puled the trigger and not afraid to admit it.

[Rockwell]

While we're talking about ending the "cycle of death", why not also end the cycle of punishment/suffering? I mean, there's been enough suffering already with the initial crime; why continue the cycle by punishing the criminal for the crime? Turn the other cheek, that's what I always say.

[sig]

Fred, apologies for joining the discussion as a foreigner, not my business I know.

Some comments above uses the term "I would not loose any sleep..." and we all know the argument "what if somebody killed your..." - to both which I completely sympathise and even agree.

As an individual I would want revenge, no doubt about that.

But I cannot ask the society to do that for me.

Revenge is for me not a valid public task, provide infrastructure and security are. But a killer can be locked up and secutiy would have been delivered.

Killing him to save tax money cannot be a good enough reason, or what?
Killing him as deterrent does not seem to work either (countries with capital punishment does not seem to have lower crime rates).

I'm not allowed to revenge myself (we see how that escalates in cultures that follows that path...) - why then should it be a public service I wonder?

Again, apologies for butting in.

[DeusExLibris]

Tony - I don't think anyone is suggesting that the desire for revenge on someone who has deprived us of a loved one is an inappropriate reaction. I amn quite certain that is how I would feel. What is being said is that revenge is not appropriate public policy. In fact, our justice system is there specifically to prevent the kind of revenge based retribution that has plagued so many other societies throughout history to their ultimate demise. Most of the rest of the world has come to the conclusion that captial punishment is not justified even in the most heinous of situations.

The two favorite arguments in favor of captial punishment are economic (it's cheaper to execute someone than warehouse them for life) and the deterrent effect. Both of these have been consistently shown to be false. Searching Google for capital punishment economics results in a number of excellent references on the subject.

[Christy]

There are just too many problems with the death penalty for me to support it. First, I'm with the others who think that two wrongs don't make a right. Second, contrary to popular belief, it is cheaper to imprison someone for life than it is to go through all of the appeals available to those on death row. Third, I just can't support an uncorrectable, permanent punishment in light of the fact that there is almost always the possibility (however small) that the wrong person has been convicted.

I am all for permanently removing violent offenders, especially psychotic ones, from society for good. But setting aside the philosophical and financial arguments, the possibility of executing innocent people makes the whole thing a non-starter for me.

[Christy]

(oops, I just saw your comment making the same point about $, DeusExLibris)

[Timone]

Oh poor baby, the murdering thug who inspired legions of other murdering thugs is set to die and the Libs have their panties in a knot about it.

Is there a murdering thug anywhere the Libs won't defend?

[Jason]

The threat of capital punishment greases the wheels of our legal system. By agreeing to waive it, the legal system gets plea bargains, accomplices provide testimony, and despite the unfounded claims, it does help prevent such crimes.

But the threat of capital punishment only works if we use it. While we rarely do (excepting Texas) it remains critical to the functioning of our legal system.

So Fred, on this Pearl Harbor Day, answer this: Should we have turned the other cheek with Japan? With Hitler's Germany?

And one more question: Are you pro-choice? If so, that would make you against executing the most evil society has to offer, while killing innocent babies. How do you rationalize that one?

[jackson]

I'm actually not against Capital Punishment, per se, but to Jason's point I do take offense. Pro choice is exactly that - it's a woman's right to choose, it's not the advocacy of terminating babies. Life is cheap - everywhere, on death row, and the womb.

I also support Tony's right to hunt down and kill those who transgress against his family.

If Mr. Williams blew my head off, I'd want somebody to avenge my death. If Mr. Williams blew off Tony's head, I'd be the first on line to buy a gun and hunt him down.

I do think that it's too easy to get guns, and as a society we should address that. That being said, a machete would take off Mr. Williams head just as well.

[jason]

Looks like Tookie will get the justice juice.

[Christy]

I don't think that sending people to prison for life is "turning the other cheek." What percentage of false positives (convicted given innocent) are you willing to accept? There have to be some, since evidence is probabalistic, people's memories fail, eyewitness are unreliable, evidence gets contaminated, etc. Would 1/100 convicted and executed actually innocent be acceptable to you? 1/1000?

[Tony]

I'm sick and tired of people who say prisons are a picnic and a paradise now.And that if we don't have capital punishment,criminals will "get away""scott free" with murder.I'm sorry,but spending the rest of your life in prison is not getting away with anything.Life sentences are a good alternative to the electric chair.