Iraq and Terror

It's been tough to watch our struggles in Iraq.

I have to admit that I have had very mixed feelings about the war in Iraq.

As a citizen, you want to support your troops when they are fighting (and dying) in a foreign country.

And when the Iraqis went to vote in droves, it was pretty easy to start thinking that maybe Bush was right.

But most of the time, as I sit back and do my monday morning quarterbacking, I feel that we should not have gone to Iraq and should not be there now.

I saw this in the Wall Street Journal this morning:

Bush accused Islamic militants of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and charged they have made Iraq their main front.

Yup, they have made Iraq their main front.

But we made that happen. We invaded Iraq and made it a war zone.  And now it is the center of global terror.

Apparently the people who were working on a plan to bomb the NY subway system were tracked down in Iraq.

It really begs the following question:

Are we safer or in more danger because of our war in Iraq?

I am not going to try to answer that question.

Maybe some of my readers will in the comments section.

But I'd just like to say that it's on my mind a lot these days.

Walking through the subway turnstiles isn't as simple a thing to do as it used to be.

Comments

[Bob Race]

Your blog is incredibly simplistic. You seem to believe that Bush and his policies are the issue and the causes of terrorism. Sorry, we in the US and the west are the victims of a growing group of fanatics.

I am sure you know we are not really less safe now because of the actions in Iraq. We are infinitely more safe and aware of the threats to us and our way of life.

You may disagree with either the strategy or the tactics, but it is chicken to not offer workable and plausible alterntive solutions. Iraq is painful and costly but not hardly as painful and costly compared to doing nothing. Please run for commander in chief and fix all the problems.

Sincererly,
Bob

[Helmar]

Derek Scruggs wrote: Are there more or fewer terrorist training camps in Iraq now than there were pre-invasion? Are the terrorists who are there now better "educated" than they were pre-invations?

I doubt there were any terrorist training camps in Iraq, unless you count the wedding parties the US army was bombing, turning them into a terrorist breeding ground litterally within a split-second. Or the many tens of thousands of civilians killed 'by accident' (or not). Their relatives are almost guaranteed to turn into what you guys call terrorists.

The thing that the US doesn't seem to get is that it will soon not only have the entire country against it, but sympathisers all over the globe. It's a war that was avoidable in the first place, but that has become unwinnable by now.

And that soldier's comment "it's better to fight it there than here". Maybe he needs to engage his brain for a moment and think whether fighting is necessary in the first place. If he thinks it is, then maybe he also deserves to pay the price for it - death.

The problem in general is that the vast majority of people 1) suffer from acute myopia and 2) -more dangerously- believe that their government a) has their best interest at heart, b) tells them the truth, c) gives a rat's arse whether they die or not. The answer to all three is 'no', BTW.

And don't get me started on 'democracy'... ;)

So again, as long as you believe the lies, and perpetuate the crimes through economic and political terrorism, you will reap the rewards. Only when you sow peace will you reap peace. The last century, however, you've sowed war, instability, terrorism and hatred, and only now are you paying the price for it. It would be ok if it was only limited to the US, but the actions of your moronic government and the hawks behind the scenes make the entire world less stable, and that is starting to piss me off.

[Brian]

I want a number. We're doing cost/benefit here.

No. You can't do a cost/benefit on national policy and defense of the realm and so on.

Atomic level this thinking led to the original M16 rifle and the FB-111 - McNamara DoD creations that at best were second best weapons and and worst dangerous to the operators. Do a cost/benefit on the M16 and a malfunction every x rounds is just a cost of doing business. On the ground you've got a lot of dead grunts found next to their rifles.

But we're talking national policy - and that thinking fails there as well. We can, in material and human terms, afford to keep putting up targets and letting other guys knock them down. More people die in traffic yearly than did on 9/11. We spend more on pizza (I jest but not much) than it will cost to rebuild the WTC.

But a country is more than a collection of buildings and place names. It's a system that vows to protect the citizenry. A collective sense of purpose. A country that won't protect the citizenry or lets people just .. kill them dead isn't a country it's a collection of peer groups and special interests and everyone looking out for number one.

How do you cost/benefit what makes a country a nation and not just a place to live? You can't.

I don't want to hear about proxy arguments that have been beaten to death already. Here are some that don't work:

I've never made those proxy arguments. That 'some' of 'those' people hate us is self-evident. We debate why, and it's more complicated than 'Israel' or 'clash of nations' - it's all of it together.

My _only_ arguement in this thread has been something like

* we are there.

* winning the fight is better than loosing if it can be won.

* we can win depending on your definition of win. We'll be IN that area until we change over from a petrol economy. There will always be angry young men shooting at ours.

Short of simply abandoning the entire region and ditching a petrol as a fuel source (and I'd be in favor of that) we're there for the duration.

Maybe that's your answer. We need petrol. The West needs it, some regions (hello EU) more than others. We're certainly not taking the reserves by force or I'd have a gallon of Iraqi best, delivered by the National Guard in my tank.

Is it possible we're (trying) to setup conditions where the market can determine the best price for a gallon of oil?

I ask because I don't know.

[K]

Helmar:

"I doubt there were any terrorist training camps in Iraq"

I doubt you are right.

"Their relatives are almost guaranteed to turn into what you guys call terrorists"

Almost, but not quite.

"Maybe he needs to engage his brain for a moment and think whether fighting is necessary in the first place. If he thinks it is, then maybe he also deserves to pay the price for it - death."

You're sick, dude.

"The problem in general is that the vast majority of people"

The vast majority of what people?

"And don't get me started on 'democracy'."

Oh, so you've got a problem with democracy? it works pretty well for us.

"So again, as long as you believe the lies"

And, what lies would those be?

"and perpetuate the crimes through economic and political terrorism"

Ah, I'm guessing this is related to your disdain of democracy.

"the actions of your moronic government and the hawks behind the scenes make the entire world less stable"

Oh really? Well, let's see...what moronic government wants to sell weapons using state-of-the-art technology to China? What moronic government has been aiding and abetting Iran's nuclear program by supplying direct design assistance, technology, and materials? I could go on, but I'll assume you get my point.

"Only when you sow peace will you reap peace."

You're kidding, right? Let me guess: "turn the other cheek" and all that good stuff? That doesn't work very well when they lop off the whole head.

I think you've been smoking your clothes.

[steve]

jezza, memri is "of course a far-right Jewish organisation"? Says who? talk about inflammatory racist rhetoric.

but forget memri.org. what translation service do you prefer? I'm open to any other. do you dispute the basic, widely, repeatedly proved fact that radical islamicists (and even so-called moderates) spout endless hate speech in the arabic language media?

Peace! In our time!

[Mon]

"And that soldier's comment "it's better to fight it there than here". Maybe he needs to engage his brain for a moment and think whether fighting is necessary in the first place. If he thinks it is, then maybe he also deserves to pay the price for it - death."

I don't know how to respond to this....other than to say you are a fucking idiot.

By the way, the same soldier said something else I'm sure will make you grind your teeth: he commented that the media has a single-minded focus on the number of people killed each day in Iraq...vs. focusing on the good things; for example, the number of schools that are opening.

He went on to say, more people are murdered each day in Chicago than in Iraq. I'm not sure about that. But this I am sure of: there are more people murdered each day in South Africa - your chosen country - than are killed in Iraq. In fiscal 2004, over 18,000 people were murdered in SA....read about it here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/09/21/safrica.crime.ap/

Why don't you do something about that?

[charlie crystle]

I am stunned by some of the simplistic arguments made here. Fight them there instead of here. Tell that to London Bali and Spain. Nothing like tens of thousands dead Iraquis to inspire a new generation of anti_Americanism.

Bush decided to invade Iraq before 9/11. Bush knew about the plot before 9/11 and failed to act--documented. Paul WOlfowitz introduced the idea in 1998 and tried to get the Clinton adminstration to buy into it. Wanted a forward military base in the Middle East. Well, Paul, ya got it. How's that working out for ya?

The Iraq war is a bad idea that was poorly planned, poorly executed, and poorly managed. It's as bad an idea as supplying Iraq with arms in the 80's, strengthening Saddam (thanks, Rummy), and lying to the American public about all of this over all of these years.

Responsible leadership chooses the path of diplomacy and containment. There was no link between Saddam and al queda. Now Al Queda is in Iraq, because we opened up the borders. What a stupid series of missteps. I feel deeply ashamed of my country for allowing these idiots to continue to mismanage and abuse their power in our names. We deserve better. And that's not a liberal or conservative perspective, it's an American perspective.

And pre-emption...what an unbelievably stupid policy. Try applying that to China. Or North Korea. Good luck with that one.

[jackson]

Tony, I checked the link, and well, Y'know both Fred and I feel the same way about Members of the Armed Service as you do, but the few posts I checked out backed my point entirely.

As for my remarks about the Imp and the uneducated, well I apologize, plenty of well educated folks voted for the jerk.

I can't see as to how that would make anybody feel better about it.

Let's face it, the beast is out of the box, there's no debate on what to do now. We have to keep fighting, thanks to a few well placed dolts.

Steve - The Hitler/WWII thing doesn't work. The citizens of Germany were aware that Hitler was invading Czech, Poland, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Scandinavia, shall I go on?

And again, we're not talking about a nation, we're talking about a social movement within a religiuos based culture that exists across many borders.

It's not the same, and to think you can fight it the same way is to make an error in judment.

I owe you nothing, but I'll give anybody my compassion.

[David Gibbons]

Counting by the comments, you're clearly in the wrong business Fred; ever thought of being Mayor?

[Clarkie]

Steve - how can you make such ridiculous, blatantly racist, hyperbolic statements and then demand an apology when Jackson calls you on them? Do you read these things before you click? Look in the mirror before you declare Jackson too "emotional" to "tolerate debate"... buddy.

As for my two cents, I can't see that the US or the world is any safer for having invaded Iraq. I do worry deeply about the rising tide of fundamentalist governments... starting with MY OWN. Oddly enough, it seems we are installing a caliphate in Iraq. I just don't get it. A few months ago, I saw some tape on the news of a woman turning up for class at a graduate school only to be met at the entrance by two men who demanded she go home and change because she was wearing pants. She politely tried to argue but it was plain they weren't negotiating. Now it seems that all the women on tv are in traditional garb. That is not better. It's a small gripe considering what an average Iraqi living in a war zone must contend with, but worth noting... especially when people keep flaunting this notion of pre war Iraq as a backwards fundamentalist state that needed rescuing and use that as a justification for invasion. It wasn't before, but it is now and it definitely needs rescuing.

The real "imminent threat" that Saddam posed was that he had begun trading oil for Euros. This could've been disasterous for the American economy and way of life. I would be glad to listen to someone argue that this was reason enough to go in (I may not agree), but spare me the donkey kong about spreading democracy or pluralism or capitalism or feminism. There is nothing democratic about a preemptive strike that kills tens of thousands of innocents justified by lies and what someone thinks may or may not happen. That's more like fascism.

Perhaps it would be best to pull out now. I'm not sure. It certainly wouldn't be fair to leave behind such a big mess, but if it would alleviate the day to day slaughter of Iraqi civilians and American soldiers that we've all become totally immune to then it's worth a shot. In my mind, the invasion will never be justified, but my hope is that ultimately something good will come of it. I have hope because there are so many good people on the ground over there who are simply trying to make good use of their time. To me they are not all Abu Ghraib morons just as not all Muslims are trying to kill me. It will be the individual soldiers themselves and the deeds they do that can win over "the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. If they can separate the people from the policies that put them there, and we can do the same, then we'll all be better off.

[Helmar]

I wrote:

"Maybe he needs to engage his brain for a moment and think whether fighting is necessary in the first place. If he thinks it is, then maybe he also deserves to pay the price for it - death."

K replied:
You're sick, dude.

Mon replied:
I don't know how to respond to this....other than to say you are a fucking idiot.

I dunno if I have to remind you, but soldiers are there to kill, and to get killed. Not only that, but you have absolutely nothing lost in Iraq, do you? It's not your territory. It's a sovereign state - like so many others you invaded for your own gain.

No one is forced into the army. The laws that make conscription compulsory are put in place by people that you voted into power. It's the same people who ensure that there will always be people poor and desperate enough to enlist in order to better their lives, only to pay the ultimate price. It's an insidious game that's been played out against the population, esp. the poor, but that's not new to us, is it? But it's time that soldiers (and yes, I generalise) engage their brains instead of just blindly following orders. And if you don't have a means to resist conscription or get out of it without reprisal, then - and read this carefully - you simply have a dictatorship instead of a democracy. Just because 'they' tell you that the US is a free country with a working democracy doesn't mean that's actually the case. Otherwise the woman wearing the "Meet the F*ckers" t-shirt wouldn't have been booted off the Southwest Airlines flight. But I don't want to digress...

If you've been fed a diet of media manipulation, bad food, bad education, government lies, and stupid, often religion-infused patriotism, how can you expect to step back from your own self and watch the whole thing from a distance? You can't. And thus you become nothing but a playball of those in power, political, religious or military. You are cannon fodder for their megalomaniac plans of domination.

The vast majority of what people?

People all over the world. Those on the abovementioned "diet". That's by default more than 50%, otherwise we'd live in a different world, not? It may surprise you, but the dreams and aspirations of the average muslim family aren't any different to those of the average christian family, or average buddhist, hindu or pagan family.

Oh, so you've got a problem with democracy? it works pretty well for us.

If you enjoy the diet, then yes. I don't. Remember what the Bible said: "God created man in his own image." Ponder on that for a moment, then ask yourself how much of what God (who/whatever it may be) gave you at birth you are actually living out. This piece of self-reflection should be enough to make you stop in your tracks - Bible-follower or not. But as long as you believe in others instead of yourself, THEY keep making the decisions for you - at least the ones that matter, the ones that result in terror threats against the subway or actual attacks against your military installations on foreign soil.. or the WTC.

And if you say "it works for us", then let me tell you that it doesn't work for others, especially those tired of US-led manipulation, indoctrination and terrorism. Those tired of your insane consumption, pollution and total and utter ignorance of sustainability and the connectedness of all things existing.

And, what lies would those be?

Shall we start with the WMDs in Iraq? Shall we move over to Aspartame, to genetically modified foods, to industrial hemp, to colloidal silver, to Dr. Royal Rife and his Frequency Generator? Shall we continue with the Govt knowing beforehand of 9/11, knowing beforehand of Pearl Harbour? The list is endless. And 40+ years later you still don't know for sure who killed JFK. All coincidence, eh? I doubt.

Oh really? Well, let's see...what moronic government wants to sell weapons using state-of-the-art technology to China? What moronic government has been aiding and abetting Iran's nuclear program by supplying direct design assistance, technology, and materials? I could go on, but I'll assume you get my point.

I do get your point, but I'm not engaging in it by telling you who your weapons industry sold things to, which (not only) Latin American countries your government destabilised, which despots it hoisted into power and supported with money and weapons (Saddam being one of them, btw), etc. etc.

You're kidding, right? Let me guess: "turn the other cheek" and all that good stuff? That doesn't work very well when they lop off the whole head.

Sure doesn't. ;) But you fail to see the point. Ask yourself why they would want to lop off the whole head in the first place? Why is no one bombing the Peruvian Trade Centre, or a Mongolian Mission in wherever? Why is no one bombing a South African fregatte? Why is no one kidnapping Icelandic journalists?

As I said, you are reaping the 'rewards' with a bit of time delay, because over the past decades your government (dem or rep) have sown hatred and misery all over the planet. From Latin America, to the Middle East, to East Asia. You predatory imperialistic business behaviour, driven by a capitalistic society, supported by your 'democracy' hasn't really helped. Now you gotta sit out the mess 'you' have created. And I fear that the worst is still to come.

I think you've been smoking your clothes.

Funny you mention this, coz yesterday I was wearing my hemp shirt - THC-free, of course. But not. I just have enough time an am disengaged enough to look at things and events from a distance, which allows me to put certain things into perspective. I am not blinded by patriotism, religion, commercial or military doctrine.

I live in South Africa, a perfect example of how things turn out if you beat up the small man long enough. Now here it's not bombs or suicide attacks, but hijackings, rapes, burglaries and other violent crime. It's all the result of things done in the past. Iceland, Switzerland, Mongolia or even Tunisia, Albania or Uruguay don't suffer from this. And we know why. So... the law of cause and effect. But in order to the bigger picture, you gotta step out of it first.

Happy discovery!

PS: This is not an anti-US rant. It's just that the amount of ignorance in the US is rather perplexing. No one should ask "why us?" anymore. You should all know by now that your government (and those behind it) are plain EVIL, and that you with your actions and ignorance are supporting them. That just has to stop one way or another. It may if someone drops a nuclear warhead over a US city, just like you've dropped it over Hiroshima or Nagasaki, at a time when Japan's cities were firebombed beyond recognition already. But that's another story...

[Helmar]

Addendum to my prev post: it's ALWAYS the small people who suffer. GW Bush or Rummy or Dick Cheney aren't fighting in the trenches, are they? If a bomb gets dropped it kills ordinary people. And the dropping of bombs (or similar acts of violence) will stop ONLY when the small people wake up, stand up and refuse to play the game that those in power (political, religious, commercial and military) have been playing with them for millenia. But looking at history, chances aren't that good, I'm afraid.

"And so, I think it was by 2020 in their time, that the Earthlings had managed not only to destroy their own habitat, but had built so much mistrust that their trading system literally collapsed. No clean air to breathe and no food to eat, wars, famine, misery pretty much everywhere... well, it was good then that most of them had to leave. A shame, actually, thinking capitalism and democracy were a good idea. Poor souls. But they'll get another chance some time to get it right. Pity, it could have worked out for them this time on this magnificent planet called Earth..."

[Helmar]

And my final thought for the day:

"Remember that suicide bombers are just following orders."

[K]

According to Helmar:

"I am not blinded by patriotism, religion, commercial or military doctrine."

No, you are blinded by hate, it seems.

"Addendum to my prev post: it's ALWAYS the small people who suffer."

Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Oh, the hypocracy.

Helmar, please tell me you don't actually believe all those things you've (apparently) read in Der Spiegel (I say apparently, because unless it's a coincidence, you've just regurgitated their propoganda almost word for word).

P.S. I can tell by your comments that you have no understanding of how the military system works in the US. Let me ask you, have you ever lived in the US?

P.P.S. Perhaps you didn't intend it to come across this way, but saying someone deserves death because they have an opinion that differs from yours is just plain sick. In fact, that sounds similar to the wild rantings we've been hearing from another group of folks.

[K]

Helmar said: "Not only that, but you have absolutely nothing lost in Iraq, do you? It's not your territory. It's a sovereign state - like so many others you invaded for your own gain."

Does anyone else see the irony dripping from this statement?

Here's a hint (and I do this merely to put things in perspective, not unlike pointing out that I am a US citizen): Helmar is German.

[jackson]

Hemar is South African. I am German. Fuck You'K'.

[Helmar]

K wrote:

No, you are blinded by hate, it seems.

Hate is a waste of energy. Doesn't serve anything or anyone. Why should I hate and who should I hate? The US? I got loads of friends there. The US Military ranks? No, they are in the sorry state that they are 'just following orders' or 'just doing their job'. I feel sorry for them, honestly, because there are human beings whose lives are wasted by some arse higher up.

Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains! Oh, the hypocracy.

Am I the only one not getting this?

Helmar, please tell me you don't actually believe all those things you've (apparently) read in Der Spiegel (I say apparently, because unless it's a coincidence, you've just regurgitated their propoganda almost word for word).

I read DER SPIEGEL every day, so you gotta be a bit more specific about the actual source. And relooking at my last three posts, no, nothing there comes from DER SPIEGEL.

P.S. I can tell by your comments that you have no understanding of how the military system works in the US.

Not only between you and me, but what's the relevance of knowing how the military system works in the US? We are looking at cause and effect. We are looking at the effect the US is getting (read the original topic further up) from the cause, which is the political decisions that lead to military interventions... oops.. invasions, and the support and propping up of despots, dictators and other sorry figures around the world for the US' gain.

No military, no fighting, no making enemies. Remember: at base level, the aspirations of people in all cultures and religious systems are the same.

Let me ask you, have you ever lived in the US?

Does it matter for one minute where I have lived or not? What if I said 'no'? What if I said 'yes'? My opinion is formed irrespective of where I live, and you may have detected that I am very critical of what is happening in South Africa, too.

P.P.S. Perhaps you didn't intend it to come across this way, but saying someone deserves death because they have an opinion that differs from yours is just plain sick.

I didn't only come across this way, I didn't even say it. I said " Maybe he needs to engage his brain for a moment and think whether fighting is necessary in the first place. If he thinks it is, then maybe he also deserves to pay the price for it - death." IOW, if he thinks fighting is necessary in the first place, and the Military obviously being the instrument of violence (fighting), then he has to accept that when you go out heavily armed, you do this to kill people, not to make peace - and that you may get killed, too. That's what I mean. Fighting results in death. As easy as pie.

Quick correction to Jackson: I live in South Africa. I have a German passport. But none of that is in any way relevant to the discussion. I could live in Burkina Faso and have a Mongolian passport. I see myself neither as "German" nor as "South African", just in case 'K' needs it to fuel his argument. I am "Helmar" and I make up my own mind - often through trial and error (or success :))

And to both of you, there is no need to be insulting - we're all adults, right?, and we should behave as such.

[j]

My _only_ arguement in this thread has been something like

* we are there.

* winning the fight is better than loosing if it can be won.

* we can win depending on your definition of win. We'll be IN that area until we change over from a petrol economy. There will always be angry young men shooting at ours.

OK. Fair enough. And I do agree with the you-broke-it,-you-own-it argument. And we certainly broke it.

Note that suddenly we're talking about oil, and not terrorists. I also find it interesting that nobody disagreed with my comment that bin Laden got part of what he wanted already - the US mostly out of the UAE. Funny, that.

Short of simply abandoning the entire region and ditching a petrol as a fuel source (and I'd be in favor of that) we're there for the duration.

Maybe that's your answer. We need petrol. The West needs it, some regions (hello EU) more than others. We're certainly not taking the reserves by force or I'd have a gallon of Iraqi best, delivered by the National Guard in my tank.

Um. *crickets chirping*. What was Iraq about, again? That the Iraqi oil industry is having trouble rebooting is a consequence of the chaos and mismanagement of the takeover. But the takeover happened.

Is it possible we're (trying) to setup conditions where the market can determine the best price for a gallon of oil?

I ask because I don't know.

If so, I think we're doing a terrifically counterproductive job.

My best guess is that the answer is no. We're attempting to tie up as much production as possible to create preferential supply lines.

I suspect the next round of proxy wars are going to be with China. Note that we started rattling sabres at Venezuela and Iran soon after China made deals with them.

Iran won't fall over as easily as Iraq, because they haven't been starved for decades and we're militarily about tapped. Chavez might be easier - Ollie North is still alive.

I really try not to, but sometimes I hate my country's motivations.

I wonder what pretext could serve for Norway. Unfortunately, I'm only half-kidding.

[Brian]

Note that suddenly we're talking about oil, and not terrorists.

Shrug. Oil runs our economy - it shouldn't be a surprise that we talk about it.

As I said, I think we'd be well rid of the stuff. Finding a power source as compact and efficien as petrol is a challenge of course.

I also find it interesting that nobody disagreed with my comment that bin Laden got part of what he wanted already - the US mostly out of the UAE. Funny, that.

I missed it. Probably got lost in the hatred and bickering up thread. Funny how meaningful and polite discourse gets lost when everyone is pseudo anonymous.

Hemar is South African. I am German. Fuck You'K'.

Yes, like that. Sad.

I suspect the next round of proxy wars are going to be with China.

Which takes the discussion into a whole 'nother realm. If by 'proxy war' you mean 'cold war' similar to the 20th century cold war tween the Soviets and Americans .. we've been there for a few years already.

[LibbyRall]

Bob Race is correct when he said:

"Sorry, we in the US and the west are the victims of a growing group of fanatics."

Yeah, this growing group of fanatics are Christian Conservatives (I refuse to call them the Religious Right)!

[Mick]

My take:

It's about oil...

If Iraq was about freedom for us and/or for them then ask yourself why the Sudan has now nearly completed its genocide on its African population without intervention, ask yourself why Bosnia ever happened, ask yourself why countless regimes around the world including Saudi Arabia are allowed to continue supported by the West.

Ask yourself why they are busy teeing up Iran...

OIL OIL OIL

And slowly peak oil creeps nearer.

The endgame looks nasty! Unless we get off oil! NOW! Not in 5 years. NOW! Seriously! Oil Crisis 3 will be devastating and we are teetering on the edge...clearly. Couple of heavy disasters at the same time a la Katrina etc...and bang!

A company betting on a disappearing future would find it hard to attract new investors without spinning a yarn...sound familiar?

We know only what the media tells us, the same media that is owned by people reliant on the government to maintain the status quo to enable the media owners to maintain their treetop position in society. It is not a conspiracy. It is human nature! What would you do? Why would you or they rock the boat and risk everything you or they have?

I'm wrong? OK...give me an example of one of the major network owners risking it all and rocking the boat!!!

So obvious...in 20 years, if we are still here, we will look back at this in wonder at our stupidity.

It's the Millgram experiment en masse!

[Exploited3]

Program on the emergence of civilization.

"14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent. "
Favor.
And disfavor.

They point out Africans’ failed attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it's applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.

The roots of racism are not of this earth.

Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals.

The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.

AIDS in Africa.

Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:

1. MUCK - perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as "god"
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management
3. Evil/disfavored aliens - runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere

Terrestrial management:

4. Chinese/egyptians - this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans - they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia - the real-world interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician - Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.

Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1985 James Bond View to a Kill 1989 San Francisco Loma Prieta earthquake.

Many Muslims are being used like the Germans and Japanese of WWII::being used to hurt others and envoke condemnation upon their people.

They can affect the weather and Hurricane Katrina was accomplished for many reasons and involves many interests, as anything this historical is::
1. Take heat off Sheenhan/Iraq, protecting profitable war machine/private war contracts
2. Gentrification. New Orleans median home price of $84k is among the lowest in major American cities, certainly among desirable cities.

Our society gives clues to the system in place. We all have heard the saying "He has more money than god." There is also an episode of the Simpsons where god meets Homer and says "I'm too old and rich for this."

This is the system on earth because this is the system everywhere.
god is evil because of money.

I don't want to suggest the upper eschelons are evil and good is the fringe.

But they have made it abundantly clear that doing business with evil (disfavored) won't help people. They say only good would have the ear, since evil is struggling for survival, and therefore only the favored could help me.

The clues are there which companies are favored and which are disfavored, market domination being one clue, but they conceal it very hard because it is so crucial.

I offer an example of historical proportions:::

People point to Walmart and cry "anti-union".

Unions enable disfavored people to live satisfactorly without addressing their disfavor. This way their family's problems are never resolved. Without the union they would have to accept the heirarchy, their own inferiority.
Unions serve to empower.
Walmart is anti-union because they are good. They try to help people address and resolve their problems.
Media ridicule and lawsuits are creations to reinforce people's belief that Walmart is evil (disfavored).
I believe the coining of the term "Uncle Sam" was a clue alluding to just this.
The middle class is being deceived. They are being misled into the unfavored, and subsequently will have no hope.

Amercia is a country of castoffs, rejects. Italy sent its criminals. Malcontents.
Between the thrones, the klans and kindred, they "decided" who they didn't want and acted, creating discontent and/or starvation.
The u.s. is full of disfavored rejects. It is the reason for the myriad of problems not found in European countries. As far as the Rockafellers and other industrialists of the 19th century go, I suspect these aren't their real names. I suspect they were chosen to go and head this new empire.

Royalty is the right way to organize a society. Dictatorships and monarchies are a reflection of the antient's hierarchical organization.
Positions go to those who have favor with the rulers, as opposed to being elected.
Elections bring a false sense of how the world is. Democracy misleads people.
Which is why the disfavored rejects were sent to the shores of America::To keep them on the wrong path.

Jesus Christ is a religious figure of evil. These seperatist churches formed so they could still capture the rest of the white people, keeping them worshipping the wrong god.
And now they do it to people of color, Latinos and Asians, after centuries of preying upon them.

Since Buddism doesn't recongnize a god, the calls are never heard, and Chinese representation is instead selected by the thrones.
It was set up this way. Perhaps dyanstic thrones had a say, but maybe not.
Budda was the Asian's Jesus Christ::: bad for the people. "They came up at the same time for a reason."

Simpson's foreshadowing::Helloween IV special, Flanders is Satan. "Last one you ever suspect."
"You'll see lots of nuns where you're going:::hell!!!" St. Wigham, Helloween VI, missionary work, destroying cultures.
Over and over, the Simpsons was a source of education and enlightenment, a target of ridicule by the system which wishes to conceal its secrets.

Jews maim the body formed in the image of "god", and inflicted circumsision upon all other white people, as well as the evil that is Jesus Christ.
I think about how Jews (were used to) created homosexuality among Slavics, retribution for the Holocaust.
Then I think of the Catholic Church and its troubles.
What connection is here between Jews and the Catholic church???
And if it is their sinister motives that’s behind the evil that is Jesus Christ are they being used at all?
Perhaps it is them who are pulling strings.

I believe Islam is the one true religion, and those misled christians who attack "god's" most favored people will pay for it dearly one day.

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